WikiLeaks – “Collateral Murder”
- April 5th, 2010
- Posted in Operation Iraqi Freedom V . Opinions
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Critical note: I am not, nor have I ever claimed to be, a helicopter pilot. Thousands of you viewers have come here via click-through on a widely disseminated, and poorly researched, article found here.
Warning: The video content contained within this post is likely to greatly disturb those who have not seen these things many times before. People die. It is real. War, as they say, is hell. Updates below.
To start things off, I will come right out and say I support WikiLeaks in their endeavors to bring about transparency in government. The government promises to do such things and fails time and time again. That said, I have several problems with their presentation of “Collateral Murder,” the video immediately below this paragraph. These errors do nothing to lend to the credibility of this organization, and if there is any desire to promote anything but transparency and truth I will cease any inkling of support immediately.
Critical Update: In the time since I wrote this post, it has become abundantly clear that WikiLeaks is undeserving of my support. They continue, time and time again, to editorialize information and then present it as hard fact. My analysis remains, but my support for the organization does not. Their stated charter is noble; the methods they use are not.
For those unaware of my background, I have spent quite a lot of time (a conservative estimate would be around 4500 hours) viewing aerial footage of Iraq (note: this time was not in viewing TADS video, but footage from Raven, Shadow, and Predator feeds). I am certain my voice can be heard on several transmissions with several different Crazyhorse aircraft, as I have called them to assist troops on the ground more times in my 26-months in Iraq than I could even attempt to guess. I need no reassurances to determine the presence of an RPG7 or an AK-variant rifle, especially not from a craft flying as low as Apache (even after the video has been reduced in dimensions to a point at which it is nearly useless).
Several commenters on Twitter and YouTube have expressed a great deal of anger towards the United States and members of its military. Many of them, unsurprisingly, have wished death on us all. Part of the problem, which is far more complex than I have the time or desire to fully discuss, lies in the presentation of above video.
What could have been the case is identified for the viewer quite readily. What certainly is true, in several key moments, is not. When presenting source media as the core of your argument, it is grossly irresponsible to fail to make known variables not shown within that media. If you are going to take the time to highlight certain things in said media, you should make certain all key elements are brought to the attention of your viewer.
WikiLeaks failed to do these things in this video, happily highlighting the positions and movements of the slain reporter and photographer while ignoring those of their company. It is also, until their arrival on scene, never clear where exactly the ground forces are in reference to Crazyhorse 18 and flight. I can make a pretty good guess, given my background. I would guess the same cannot be said by the vast majority of WikiLeaks’ target audience.
Between 3:13 and 3:30 it is quite clear to me, as both a former infantry sergeant and a photographer, that the two men central to the gun-camera’s frame are carrying photographic equipment. This much is noted by WikiLeaks, and misidentified by the crew of Crazyhorse 18. At 3:39, the men central to the frame are armed, the one on the far left with some AK variant, and the one in the center with an RPG. The RPG is crystal clear even in the downsized, very low-resolution, video between 3:40 and 3:45 when the man carrying it turns counter-clockwise and then back to the direction of the Apache. This all goes by without any mention whatsoever from WikiLeaks, and that is unacceptable.
At 4:08 to 4:18 another misidentification is made by Crazyhorse 18, where what appears to clearly be a man with a telephoto lens (edit to add: one of the Canon EF 70-200mm offerings) on an SLR is identified as wielding an RPG. The actual case is not threatening at all, though the misidentified case presents a major perceived threat to the aircraft and any coalition forces in the direction of its orientation. This moment is when the decision to engage is made, in error.
(note: It has to be taken into consideration that there is no way that the Crazyhorse crew had the knowledge, as everyone who has viewed this had, that the man on the corner of that wall was a photographer. The actions of shouldering an RPG (bringing a long cylindrical object in line with one’s face) and framing a photo with a long telephoto lens quite probably look identical to an aircrew in those conditions.)
I have made the call to engage targets from the sky several times, and know (especially during the surge) that such calls are not taken lightly. Had I been personally involved with this mission, and had access to real-time footage, I would have recommended against granting permission. Any of the officers with whom I served are well aware that I would continue voicing that recommendation until ordered to do otherwise. A few of them threatened me with action under Article 15 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice for doing so. Better officers than they, fortunately, were always ready to go to bat for me and keep that from happening. That said, if either of the clearly visible weapons been oriented towards aircraft, vehicles, troops, or civilians I would have cleared Crazyhorse 18 hot in a heartbeat and defended my actions to the battle staff if needed.
(note: The above is based on the number of times footage from a UAV under my unit’s control produced visual evidence that showed a lesser threat level than that reported as possible by either attack aviation or troops on the ground. Such footage may not have been available during this incident, and as such if the camera was thought to be an RPG the engagement of the personnel was well within any ROE I have ever seen. By making the call, I mean that I have quite literally been the voice heard over the radio clearing an engagement. It is important to note that while I was a position to influence the decision, the actual decision was not mine to make – that falls to the officer-in-charge, not the non-commissioned officer-in-charge.)
The point at which I cannot support the actions of Crazyhorse 18, at all, comes when the van arrives somewhere around 9:45 and is engaged. Unless someone had jumped out with an RPG ready to fire on the aircraft, there was no threat warranting a hail of 30mm from above. Might it have been prudent to follow the vehicle (perhaps with a UAV), or at least put out a BOLO (Be On the Look Out) for the vehicle? Absolutely without question. Was this portion of the engagement even remotely understandable, to me? No, it was not.
All in all, the engagement clearly went bad. I would have objected when I was a private first-class pulling triple duty as an RTO, driver, and vehicle gunner. I would have objected when I was a sergeant working well above my pay-grade as the Brigade Battle NCO. My assessment is based on my experiences in that very theater of operations. I did not see a threat that warranted an engagement at any point. I did, however, see the elements indicating such a threat could develop at any moment. (note: As I did, in fact, already know several things about the situation when I viewed this footage I cannot say with any certainty that had I viewed the exact same footage at the time of the incident that I would not have concluded the camera was an RPG as well.) People can make their judgements however they wish, but what is clearly visible is not the entire picture. I’ll also say that I’ve seen Crazyhorse elements do some pretty drastic maneuvers to protect troops and civilians alike. Those pilots have saved the lives of my friends many times, and a bad shoot is not going to ruin them as far as I’m concerned.
Update: I have seen several mentions of a Bradley Fighting Vehicle running over a body off in the rubble. This is highlighted at some point in the video. Crazyhorse 18 misidentifies a Canon zoom lens as an RPG7, but WikiLeaks has managed to identify a HMMWV as a BFV. I’m not even sure how that’s possible. The transcript also has the ground commander calling on the BFV crew to “drop rap” – there should be an ‘m’ between the ‘a’ and the ‘p’ – ramp is what it should read.
WikiLeaks claims to seek to shed the light on the truth, yet continues to allow such gross errors in reporting stand unchanged. There are many veterans with thousands of hours experience in both analyzing aerial video and understanding the often-garbled radio transmissions between units. It is not unreasonable to think any number of us would be willing to make sure everything is identified correctly, and all jargon is translated appropriately, before things go to the presses. Promoting truth with gross errors is just as shameful as an unnecessary engagement.
Technical issues have prompted the temporary disabling of comments on this post. As soon as I fix the problem, I will turn them back on. The exchange of dialogue is important, and will be restored as soon as possible.
Comments are back up, seems my theme did not know what to do with that many comments.
Comments are down again. If anything is unclear, I’m sure there’s an explanation somewhere in my responses to various comments.
Anthony,
It’s nice to see someone fighting to patch up the holes left by the media’s lack of journalistic integrity. God bless you.
Richard
What a surprise. The US military kills reporters and covers it up!
I mean, what is there to say in defense of the obvious content of this footage? The people on the radio got hyped up after they saw the rifles and RPG and even more so when they saw the photographer crouching behind the wall and stupidly thought it was a man with an RPG. That was clearly a camera lens sticking out at 4:10 onward.
What needs to happen when events like this transpire is not a cover up, but a holding to account. Anyone involved with the mis-identification and subsequent murder of these people should have been relieved of their duties and discharged. It’s that simple. We cannot afford to have incompetent persons at the controls of such lethal measures with absolutely no accountability.
It’s clear that an Arab’s life and an Arab’s rights are not worth as much to the Pentagon as those of the homicidal incompetents heard on this video (they are the real “fuckin’ pricks”).
Of course we know this already – recall Abu Ghraib and the cover-up and the shelling of all those reporters in the Palestine Hotel and the cover-up, etc, etc, etc. So great, this blogger explains that WikiLeaks didn’t point out the weapons in the hands of some with whom the reporters were seen. So what? Does that alter the fact that these reporters were murdered? No.
“Keep shootin’” and wonder why we continue to be the #1 target for Muslim terrorists.
I spent 20 years on active duty as a combat soldier in the Army and can tell you that viewing that video in the comfort of your own home after the fact is very misleading. The crew of that helicopter had a lot more to do than just stare at that vidoe screen. They had to look for other aircraft in the area, look out for RPG fire from other locations on the ground. They had to monitor their weapons systems and early warning systems. They had to just fly the helicopter. They had to determine where all friendly coalition forces were at. They had to monitor spot reports that ground forces in the area had taken fire. All this happenes in real time. We also don’t know how many times this crew had been engaged previously by RPG fire. There are a lot of variables that we don’t know. Did they make mistakes? Yes, I believe so, but not having been in their exact position I will not cast the first stone. Did they commit criminal acts? No, they were in contact with an armed enemy and did what they felt was correct.
I’ve noted, as you should have noticed (maybe you did, maybe you did not) that there’s no way the gun-camera footage even paints a complete picture. My intent has always been clear, and that is not to disparage the crew but rather identify key elements entirely ignored by WikiLeaks as if they are completely irrelevant. It is also very clear that my opinions about what I might have done are just that, my opinions (and furthermore, hypothetical based on conditions we cannot possibly know from what is shown).
I can’t fathom an ROE that allows what was shown in the van segment to occur justifiably. That, quite clearly, does not mean circumstances we did not see could have been at play.
Hey Anthony,
I’m from Philippines and I would like to thank you for your great analysis on this video footage. Thanks and God Bless your health.
It is of course important to get the picture of what was happening on the ground, but the shock effect of this video is not due to simple misunderstanding and misrepresenting the facts.
It is more likely the same thing that happened with the scandal of Abu Ghraib, when the sadism of certain individuals was exposed. People find it difficult to admit that amongst the multitude of people serving in the army there are also some soldiers that simply enjoy killing.
So the goal in trying to justify the unjustifiable is actually not defending the actions of the individuals, but to defend the image of “the courageous and honourable American soldier”. People seem to forget that there are assholes everywhere and in every country, and when an asshole wears an uniform, he is not ceasing to be an asshole. I mean, think about the meanest bully in the schoolyard, who later joins the army. Will he miraculously turn into a good guy? Maybe, maybe not. Certainly not always.
I’m a foreigner, but I’m not anti-American. I think America has always been all about the rights, freedoms and responsibilities of an individual, and therefore I’m in loss trying to understand, why Americans so often see their soldiers only as soldiers, not as individuals.
Of course the inability to deal with soldiers as individuals sometimes reaches the army also – the cover up of this video is a clear example.
Anthony,
You’re fighting a losing battle sir. I commend you for your grit and sense of honor. Whether this particular situation warrants disciplinary action is for people far more knowledgeable of these issues than I. I would therefore stop far from from attempting to “Monday-morning-quarterback” the issue for sure.
As a US Navy veteran, I will say that most civilians really have no frame of reference to draw on when trying to comprehend these types of situations. Unfortunately, it doesn’t stop them from feeling the need to voice their opinions.
One thing that I try to always remember is; A truly “civilized” population, has neither the ability to understand, nor the stomach for war.
The American people, as well as many others around the world don’t REALLY want to know where their freedoms come from. Nor do they REALLY want to know how they are protected. They only care that they have them, and that they are protected.
Thanks Anthony, to you and all those who are put in harms way to protect the freedoms that so many of us take for granted.
Hi;
I am very surprised that there exist a people who can defend this type of war crime. It looks like that the murders are enjoying by killing Iraqis. They are laughing and express no guilty as if they are enjoying what they are doing. Is this the freedom your government promised the Iraqis? Or maybe it is the democracy? Let us assume that by mistake the Crazyhorse aircraft crow (or maybe the CrazyEvil) shot the civilians, how you could explain the shooting of the people who are trying to evacuate the injured person?
You administration lie when they told you that Iraq have a mass destructive weapons and you believe them. These people even if they are fighters they have the same right to defend their land as you if someone invade your country.
Abuahmed
Hi AbuAhmed,
that’s the great America. What they say is rigth, if you try to say anything else you will become bustet (and a helicopter pilot loughs…).
…Problem: Americans believe in this…
q
I enjoyed your blog post, it adds much to my understanding of the video.
I have no problem with the journalism exhibited by wikileaks: they offered their full source for anyone (such as you) to draw and publish their own conclusions.
The edited version turns the leaked video into a story; the focus is on the two photographers, and the editorial decisions make sense in that respect.
The decision to label this “collateral murder” illustrates the editorial point that in “collateral damage” there is no implication of anything happening “inadvertantly”; hence the Orwell quote.
I feel that it is ok to label the cameras for the laypersons watching the film; I would have expected (as you yourself have commented) that if somebody authorized fire from this video feed, they would have received training in evaluating these kinds of images, and not needed the circles to see the same thing.
I think wikileaks did the best they could, and they gave us all the opportunity to check on their work by providing the full source. They might have done better, but what they did wasn’t poor journalism.
Anthony, enjoyed your input and appreciate your objectivity. Forgive me if this was discussed and I simply missed it…
The order to hold onto the wounded kids and wait for Iraqi police, is that typical and/or a policy? Is there a reason or rationale behind it? Any input you have is appreciated.
When Anthony Martinez speaks of “the downsized, very low-resolution, video”, I infer that a larger, higher resolution copy of the video exists. I argue we all should be let see the higher quality video. Almost no one who watches the downsized version can reach a reliable conclusion about the wisdom of the decision to engage.
It is clear that some of the men on the ground were unarmed. If Anthony Martinez is correct that some others were openly carrying RPG and AK weapons, why is everyone totally unafraid and unwary of the helicopter? They know the helicopter is there, because helicopters are loud.
Up close helicopters are loud, the same isn’t necessarily true when they’re flying above you. You’d be surprised how quiet they can be in flight.
I have counted the time between the beginning of aircraft vibration due to the cannon firing starts and the first hit to the target. It’s more than 1,5 seconds. Based on the M230 Chain Gun tactical data (Muzzle velocity 2,600 ft/s; 792 metters/sec) I can say – the distance of the firing should be more than 1 mile (or 1,6 kilometers). From such distance the apache helicopter looks like a black point on the sky. Sure all killed people even not not paid attention to the helicopter. They makes a photos of something much closer.
Moreover, It’s impossible to hit helicopter from AK-47 or even RPG (РПГ-5 or 7, Ручной противотанковый гранатомет) from the distance 1 mile or more.
Yes, Cron, it may very well be impossible to hit a helicopter with an AK-47 or an RPG at a distance of roughly one mile – that is precisely the point. Ideally, you want a good stand-off range to engage hostiles in order to minimize your exposure to the enemy’s weapons systems. There are pluses an minuses with every decision and course of action. Obviously, the further out you choose to engage an enemy, the more difficult it might be to positively identify what it is that you’re about to engage. Of course, even IF you were relatively closer, your ability to interpret friend from foe, or combatant from non-combatant might be diminished by a host of other factors as well.
Hi Anthony,
Thank you for explanation of the video. Most of discussions performed on the first part of incident. People talking about correct or incorrect identification of the target and of the weapons. But I’d like to explain more significant points which does not depend on the weapons in the hands of the killed people (RPG, AK, or Camera Tripod). Also I will explain things which unavailable to the U.S. people at all.
I have obtained and analyzed full video more than 30 min length with maximum resolution available. I am assume and accept – the soldier on the battlefield may make the mistake and wrong shoot. BUT, the video show CLEARLY the LOT OF MILITARY CRIMES.
The example: Attacking any person/organization/vehicle in the act of helping the wounded on a battlefield is PROHIBITED by the Geneva Convention. ANY assumptions like “may be more weapons stored in the van does not accepted by the laws”.
All type of the CRIMES on this video already considered and classified as THE MILITARY CRIMES by international litigations during 20 century.
The taken out punishment for such crimes is HANGING.
It is judicial precedent, I think you and other U.S. people know what is this.
As far as I see from the news, U.S. Government covered all facts as absolutely correct according to the official U.S. rules for the Iraq in 2007. Ok. It’s VERY significant from the judicial viewpoint.
Based on above, for me and for all people who live in countries with real democracy, who take into account the human rights and significant international conventions like Geneva Convention, for us it’s clear – U.S. Country represented by U.S. Government, legitimately elected by U.S. people is THE MOST HORRIBLE TERRORIST in the World.
The U.S. may kill everybody based only on the crazy-house assumptions which live only in crazy brains.
U.S. brain during one sunny day may imagine that Ben Laden live in YOUR Country. This is enough to kill you, you family and your Nation.
IT IS THE CRIME. The taken out punishment for such crimes is hanging. It is international judicial precedent.
Excuse me for unpleasant words. But this is the point of the view outside of the U.S. and outside of the cabin of the Apache. Hope you and somebody in U.S. can at least hear and understand what I have explained.
I read a lot about bringing child to the war, no body want to heart his own children any way .this is a silly silly thinking. But you have to know that the nature of people there is to help each other and the war with respect to them become normal life ,the war happens between houses not in the jungle or desert ,so any body saw an injured man he would save him.
Please……. I can understand the initial attack but the second one it difficult to imagine some thing like that. remember when the foot troops finds the children ,I can note clearly in their voice ,shock, and humanity when they ran with kids, but the problem was with pilot. So in this operation we can see only the pilot mistakes .
Thank you for your extraordinarily careful analysis of the video, and of the events themselves. Your work here outshines not only that of Wikileaks itself, but also that of every single mainstream report I’ve seen — both those on the left (written by people who see a Web page about the United States, and the word “murder”, and then press the “off” switch on their higher mental functions), and even those on the right (which have been slightly too defensive, though that’s certainly forgivable, given the absurd lengths to which anti-Americans go in distorting the facts, esp. when it comes to the U.S. military).
Keep up the good work.
I watched the video and am horrified, shocked and disgusted: the murder of unarmed people was harrowing, but the laughing of the murderers was also deeply disturbing. Clearly the US military is home to some deeply disturbed and psychopathic individuals. Very brave men to kill so callously from the safety of the air armed with overwhelming firepower. And to fire on children? No wonder the military hospitals in the US are inundated with psychiatric cases. God “bless” America.
You explained the honor of the U.S. Army. They can enter to the battle ONLY if they can OUT-RANGE and ! OUT-POWER the enemy.
Like firing from Apache with 30mm a.gun to the target with the camera and Ak-47.
Otherwise U.S Army will plan rearrangement.
Anthony, you let the cat out of the bag by hinting that you left the military because you knew that in Iraq, you weren’t defending the Constitution as your oath demanded. It therefore follows that you know your claim to be defending my rights is completely bogus, as are similar claims made by other ‘veterans of foreign wars’. It further follows that you know that all RoE in force in Iraq are illegitimate, however ‘sensitively’ applied. Consequently you should know as an American that anybody who works to expose what is happening is doing patriotic and righteous work. And that means that you owe Wikileaks your thanks.
All the other military types who haven’t yet come to the realization that Anthony has come to don’t qualify as Americans, and any claims that Americans are unconcerned about the basis for their security are shameful and bogus.
For the sake of argument, I’ll entertain another response. I said I swore to defend your rights (twice), I did not say I’d actually done so (through my military service). I did, in fact, say I left the service because I did not feel I was actually doing what I’d sworn to do. Were my duties strictly related to defending the Constitution, I would have been deployed to the halls of Congress – a place wherein one can find numerous domestic enemies to said document (within either political party).
While I did certainly leave the service, I have not turned my back on my oath to defend the Constitution. The whole thing. Not just the parts politically popular during election seasons. How one does that, effectively, given the track record of our government (where actually operating within the bounds of the articles or amendments are concerned) has not revealed itself to me. Writing members of Congress, frequently, does nothing. Attempting to inform the public does the same. If you’ve got an idea as to how one might make the document I swore to defend relevant again (though that phrase implies it was ever relevant in the first place), I’d love to read it.
Thanks, Anthony, for your detailed analysis of the video. You’ve performed an invaluable service for us unskilled viewers of the important video released by WikiLeaks.
I absolutely agree that WikiLeaks deserves our support given the lack of transparency with which the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq have been carried out, and that WikiLeaks undermines its credibililty and thus its worthiness of this support by failing to highlight the essential point that several of the men in the video are CORRECTLY IDENTIFIED as carrying AK-variants and RPGs. As an unskilled viewer, I was unable to discern what it is that the men are carrying, and the WikiLeaks highlights led me to believe that these were all unarmed men. By failing to disclose this essential point while highlighting the misidentification of the unarmed reporter and photographer in a video disseminated on Twitter and YouTube (where the overwhelming majority of the audience can be presumed to be unskilled in viewing this material and thus unable to discern the guns and RPGs for themselves), WikiLeaks has generated a large amount of misunderstanding of this tragic incident. This negative consequence perhaps overshadows the positive work they have done in revealing the truth about this incident and the way the war in Iraq is being fought in general.
I have two questions:
Given that someone in the company had been (correctly) identified as carrying an RPG, can the soldiers really be blamed for (wrongly) identifying the photographer tinkering with his telephoto lens as getting ready to fire an RPG?
And even if they had recognized the telephoto lens, hadn’t the soldiers correctly determined enough about the situation (a group of men carrying the enemy’s weapons in a hostile area when there are no friendly personnel known to be in the area) to support the decision to engage?
The original description from wikileaks had no reference to the persons armed with the RPG and AK. Your analysis of this video is arguably the most unbiased and objective one that I have come across on the internet. That said, I could not help feel disgusted by the footage. I do expect soldiers in combat to display bloodlust due to their training, but I would have expected better judgment from United States soldiers given the amount of time and resources that are spent on their training, and given the extremely lethal armament they handle. I could not help but be reminded of the helicopter clip from the Stanley Kubrick movie Full Metal Jacket where the marine states that everybody is a VC. This kind of behavior and especially this clip is not going to help improve the perception outsiders have of Americans.
Anthony, I found your post enlightening, and I had already read quite a bit about the video. Thanks for the contribution, and good luck on your calculus.
The problem with focusing on the legality or ethics of one incident or another is that it legitimizes the larger misadventure of attacking Iraq.
Anthony, thanks for your gracious response.
Ron Paul has a track record of strictly constitutional politics and he campaigns with the aim of returning to constitutional government. Without wanting to take your blog post off in a totally different direction, if anyone cares about how RoE get formulated and who gets killed, they would have to elect a responsible Commander in Chief. Who knows, it might be possible one day.
“The actual case is not threatening at all, though the misidentified case presents a major perceived threat to the aircraft and any coalition forces in the direction of its orientation. This moment is when the decision to engage is made, in error.”
I think this is the one mistake you made in your analysis: permission to engage was given roughly 20 seconds before the RPG was mentioned.
And have you seen the footage of the accounts of ground witnesses the day after this happen. They all claim that the men had no weapons, and for the life of me I tried and I tried but I just can’t see clearly (and mind the word clearly) an RPG. What I can see clearly are the cameras.
The DoD documents about the miltary investigation reveal that the infantry found 2 RPG-7 and an additional RPG round at the scene, so they definitely were there.
It has been suggested that the Iraqis brought them along to allow the photographers to shoot “action” pictures, such as the one showed at http://lens.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/04/06/remembering-namir-noor-eldeen/ .
It certainly seems strange that there wouldn’t be enough weapons to go around for everyone if this was a squad of insurgents ready to go to battle.
Who gave the “permission to engage”? I understood this to be the infantry telling the Apache crews that they were clear of the fire zone.
You missed my point. Permission to engage was given before ny mention of RPGs. When permission to engage was given the soldier only mentioned seeing 5 or 6 individuals armed with AK47s. Which is a lie, or an exaggeration if you prefer.
I looked at the 39 minutes two times so far and I’ve done a lot of rewinding and I cant see clearly, mind the word clearly weapons. But I can see cameras very clearly. When everybody is lying on the floor we get to see a lot of close ups of the ground and I don’t see any weapon, I don’t see any RPG. Given the history of weapons planting by US soldiers I’m very suspicious of the actual finding of RPGs at the scene. If you can point the time interval where you can clearly see RPGs in the 39 video I’d be very thankful. And if you can give an explanation to why we never see any weapons in the ground after no one is moving I’d be very thankful too.
A coupe of other questions too:
Have you seen the video of witnesses talking about this incident the next day?
Why did the soldiers fired on the journalists that tried to took photos after all of this happened and the only photos we have are the ones given by them?
What do you think about the three Hellfire Missiles fired at a buidilng without checking if it is people living in it or not and in an area that is clearly populated? What do you think about firing the first missile when there is clearly a bystander in front of it? What do you think of firing the second missile when there are some people visible in the rubble. What do you think about firing those missiles when the soldier ackonwledged that he saw something like two people entering the building after the so called insurgents entered.
If you want we can discuss the sworn statements to
Please don’t make the mistake that this video is the only info the Apache crew have; there’s a second helicopter with a second gun sight, and they can look out of the window (though with that distance, the usefulness of this seems limited), and the radio banter is not a commantary on the video as we’d be used to when seeing a newscast.
That said, if you look at 6:20:05 Z to 6:20:20 Z (going by the clock in the corner of the video), you can clearly see the person close to the crosshair handling what looks like an RPG. Anthony writes, “The RPG is crystal clear”, and I agree.
In fact, it is entirely possible that the helicopter crew did not mistake the cameras for weapons, though they definitely did mistake the cameramen photographing around the corner (we have seen the picture that he took) for someone aiming an RPG; they may have jumped to that conclusion because they did see the RPG person disappear behind that wall before.
I don’t think I’ve seen the video and testimony that you mention, a link would be appreciated.
If anything the mistake I’m making is believing that all that we get to hear in the video is the only one that happened. The mention of the RPG is made when the photographer peers around the wall and at this time permission to engage was already given. If someone did mention an RPG, either in the other helicopter or in the ground we didn’t get to hear it.
Once again have you seen the full 30 minute video? You have a very long time of filming the ground and at no time I can clearly see any weapon in the ground. At no time! Also one soldier does mention that someone appears to have an RPG under him. Appears. This soldier is near the dead man and he only say that it appears to be an RPG. And after this he doesn’t mention it again.
History shows that the US military has a record of planting weapons on dead civilians and I have not discarded this yet.
http://www.politicaltheatrics.net/2010/04/iraq-war-vet-we-were-told-to-just-shoot-people-and-the-officers-would-take-care-of-us/
http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/61873,news-comment,news-politics,alexander-cockburn-lies-damned-lies-and-us-military-cover-ups-iraq-shooting-photographers,2
Let me quote the second link:
“Defence analyst Pierre Sprey, who led the design teams for the F-16 and A-10 and who spent many years in the Pentagon, stresses two particularly damning features of the footage. The first is the claim that the Reuters photographer’s telephoto lens could be mistaken for an RPG. “A big telephoto is under a foot and half at most. An RPG, unloaded, is 3ft long and loaded, 4ft long. These guys were breathing hard to kill someone.”
Read more: http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/61873,news-comment,news-politics,alexander-cockburn-lies-damned-lies-and-us-military-cover-ups-iraq-shooting-photographers,2#ixzz0kyqMtGKH
…
In the aftermath, the US military claimed that machine guns and grenades had been found at the scene. Sprey comments that by then the cover-up was probably already underway and the weapons and grenades planted.
Read more: http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/61873,news-comment,news-politics,alexander-cockburn-lies-damned-lies-and-us-military-cover-ups-iraq-shooting-photographers,2#ixzz0kyqSAO00
”
As for the video interview of the civilians that whatched the whole thing:
http://www.democracynow.org/2010/4/8/exclusive_witnesses_describe_deadly_2007_us
And again:
Why did the soldiers fired on the journalists that tried to took photos after all of this happened and the only photos we have are the ones given by them?
What do you think about the three Hellfire Missiles fired at a buidilng without checking if it is people living in it or not and in an area that is clearly populated? What do you think about firing the first missile when there is clearly a bystander in front of it? What do you think of firing the second missile when there are some people visible in the rubble?
Note how the civilians testimony has a lot to do with what we see in the video and notice how the initial military report has very little to do to what we see in the video
Initial military report: http://www.usf-iraq.com/?option=com_content&task=view&id=12818&Itemid=128
In the video there are two groups of men crossing the street to the corner where they will be killed. The first group are the journalists. If you look closely at the second group you will clearly notice that both of them are armed: one has an RPG and the man in the striped shirt has an AK. He takes several strides with the AK in his right hand. At one point he turns away from the Apache and shifts the AK to his left hand and hides his left arm behind his back as he crosses the street. Golly gee whiz, why would he do that??????
Today I saw a picture that is claimed to be the last photo taken by the photographer in question. It shows what might be considered proof of aiding the insurgents. The person who posted the picture says you can clearly see the photographer showing the camera to the insurgents in a segment of the video prior to the leaked segment. The argument being that the photographer would peek around the corner, take pictures and give the insurgents the advantage in knowing the target, the distance etc. The questions that come to my mind are, is any of this true? why wait a few years before releasing evidence that the journalists aren’t as innocent as portrayed. I’m beginning to feel the photo might be a fake, further fogging the landscape.
The photo isn’t fake and it obviously proves nothing of that sort.
I find your analysis interesting, to say the least. But you are missing something, or many things. The voices in the cockpit were itching to kill, they were happy to kill, and couldn’t wait to kill. They started shooting before they even saw an RPG, if you say so. They saw the camerman, as I did, and they wanted to “take him out.” Then they went on to say “just pick up a weapon.” This is how they act? It is righteous murder and caught on videotape, which I know for a fact thousands and thousands of other videos like this or worse exist, I see them all the time on military websites. Secondly, innocent people were gunned down because these guys wanted to kill from above. What are you thinking, that it is ok? You’re overanalyzing this way too much. Killing innocent people is just plain wrong, period.
I see a psychological issue.
After a few days thought about this, I was reminded of Judge Dredd ( http://www.imdb.com/character/ch0012709/bio ), an old Science Fiction “street cop empowered to act as judge, jury, and executioner”. I see the four Apache crew in exactly that role. (Unlike the kind of operations that Anthony described, where somebody on the ground reviews the video feeds and decides on the use of deadly force (but the crews would still play a large part in the decision-making process), it seemed to me that in this case, the Apache crews were on their own, with “Bushmaster” merely clearing them to fire in the sense of “we’re out of the way” – please correct me if I’m wrong.)
I’ve read the Apache crew’s witness statements which the DoD has released. It confirms the impression that the video has left me with: that they’ve consistently overestimated the actual threat; their witness statements speak of 15 people on the street when there were 8, and 5-6 people in the van episode when there were clearly 3. Since I expect people who are allowed to handle helicopters to be able to count, I get the distinct impression that on that day, they were not in the frame of mind that I would wish somebody who acts as in the abovementioned triple role to be in when assessing matters of life and death. (Maybe battle fatigue?) A system that put these people on that day in this role seems broken to me. Has it been fixed?
I’ve read numerous forum posts on this issue that thank the Apache crews for “saving their bacon”; imagine the number of Iraqis that blame them for killing their innocent sons, husbands or fathers, and it’s clear that this is a sensitive issue if we’ve got a conscience. The question is not, “can these people be legally convicted for this”, but rather “do we want things to keep on happening this way”? What has been done to change this, and what still needs to be done?
I noticed that in photographs of the aftermath the front of the minivan is completely crushed. Looking back at the video, we can see that a Bradley drives over it, and then asks over the radio if anything else needs to be driven over. Is this deliberate destruction of evidence? Does it suggest that driving over bodies was also intentional?
(On a related note, I don’t think WikiLeaks misidentifies a HMMWV as a BFV. First a HMMWV seems to run over a body in the rubble, and the pilots mention it. Later, shortly before crushing the minivan, the BFV appears to run over a different body.)
Anthony, in your introduction to the video above, you lament that WikiLeaks has not used this video to your liking – what did you expect? This is an organization committing nothing less than treason on a near-daily basis.
Treason against whom exactly? As far as I can tell WikiLeaks has no country, and that makes it rather impossible for them to commit treason. Congress commits treason nearly every single day they’re in session, but nobody really seems to care about that.
Mmmm. for one, it’s called WAR so quit bitchen about murder.
First I will admit that I am well out of my area of expertise here (I am a Pre-school teacher) but was the soldier shooting from the apache having trouble with his weapon? He seems to fumble at time, is this normal because of the difficulty, or is there something wrong with his weapon? Or is it that he is less-experienced? It is not my intention to draw any negative attention to him, God knows I couldn’t endure what these soldiers do, but could that have been a motivation for engaging so early in the situation. If the situation would have escalated quickly on the ground, would he have had the necessary skills to keep his ground-troops safe? Just a thought… thanks for breaking this down for us civilians, it is important for us to have this type of discourse!
Wonderful analysis and argument, everyone. My random thoughts:
1) The gunners protected the approaching friendlies quite well.
2) They erred in engaging the van. But they erred on the side of protecting their own. Tough situation, good call.
3) Overestimating the threat is a natural human tendancy-it keeps you alive.
4) The shooter’s eagerness to kill is trained into him. In combat, he must be eager. When he’s home safe, he’ll be distraught by his actions, and in need of therapy. That’s part of the sacrifice that military service demands by the nature of the business.
5) The journalists did their job as best they could. So did the soldiers, the Army officials, and even Wikileaks. They all were true to their values and supported their causes.
6) There is only one set of individuals who acted unjustifiably. Their personal values and official power created this horrific hell in the first place: The Cheney-Bush-Rove administration reacted wrongly to 9-11 when they declared a religious crusade against Muslims worldwide, and then invaded Iraq by relying upon lies and macho bravado instead of intellect and moral courage. Of course, bin Ladin is the evil man who started all this, but Bush could have handled it better if he were truly of presidential quality.
above all twittering of the brave who done their job ……
non affected people where killed by American Soldiers as so often in latetst history
All I want to say is THANK YOU for taking the time for writing this. I am a liberal atheist Obama supporter (really, I am an atheist, not a joke), I did not support the war in Iraq, and I also read the Blackwater book and liked it/agreed with it. I mention all of these “labels”, so to speak, because I want you (whatever your political background is), to know that there are people like me (politically left) that do not take everything put out in the media as the instant “truth”, but especially a serious tragedy like this during war. It is fairly normal for us who have not seen war to look at things, like this footage, and have an immediate knee-jerk reaction; especially when one is against that particular war. However understandable the immediate reaction is to a real-time footage like this, I am greatly saddened by the fact that very little people in my political camp (actually, to be fair, more so the far left) do not care to bother with further investigation via less politically biased sources- in general, more sources. It seems they are as guilty as their (and my) opponents from the far right (Fox News, teaparty, etc.) for blindly accepting only one perspective, one version, on such a serious matter. I am arguing and debating against the wikileaks “anaylized” video (currently being passed around facebook like Mother’s cookies) since it came out, or rather, since I read your experienced take on it, but I get the wall of excuses (protecting wkileaks version) nearly every time. It is so frustrating to me that even when people see a different, more experienced (and more objective) reading on the piece, they still hold their stubborn ground. I also include this intelligent article by Lee Billings to support your (my)view: http://seedmagazine.com/content/article/truth_and_inconsequence/
I am so upset with wikileaks move to air this extremely biased and misinforming video interpretation, and the fact that they keep it posted even though they know they did not include the other extremely relevant information, that I a want to write directly to wikileaks (however, I do not know how to find an address, sadly). Until I find one, I will keep pushing/forcing people to see the more objective side of this story. Thank you again, and really… thank you for your service to our country and to the people in other countries you try to help.
Peace,
Ann
What exactly is the bias?
I get the not pointing out the weaponry visually (though the intercom and the subtitles clearly mention them). However, Seedmagazine claims “WikiLeaks also arguably failed to present the full context of the tragedy: the fact that the event occurred in the midst of a heavy combat zone, and that the Apache was supporting nearby ground troops who were under fire.” This is much more biased, because what occurred was light combat at best, and the nearby ground troops weren’t under fire at the time (apparently there had been reports of small arms fire half an hour earlier). I know who’s the better journalist of the two.
I would love to know where the hell this “former helicopter pilot” crap has come from. I rather clearly state I was an Infantry Sergeant.
Great, now people are cross-posting the horrid reporting of Yahoo! News.
People, I’m not a helicopter pilot. Never have been. Not sure I’d ever want to be. Photographer, yes. Pilot, no.